Episode Transcript

Bad Versus Badly
Episode 38: January 26, 2007

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Grammar Girl here.

This podcast is sponsored by GoToMyPC. Use GoToMyPC to take your office computer with you wherever you go. Visit http://gotomypc.com/podcast for your free 30 day trial.

Today's topic is bad versus badly.

As many of you know, on Monday CNN.com posted a very nice feature about Grammar Girl. Near the end of the article, following a paragraph about listeners being nervous writing to me, I was quoted as saying, “I feel bad about that.” This quote caused a number of you to write in and ask if I should have said, “I feel badly about that.”

Other listeners, including Lynnie in Norwich, Connecticut; Bart in Washington, D.C.; Johanna  in St. Catharines, Ontario; Scott in San Dimas, California; Paul in Pennington, New Jersey; and Kayleigh in Boston, Massachusetts had previously written in asking about the difference between bad and badly, so it seems like a good time to tackle this question.

The quick and dirty tip is that it is correct to say you feel bad when you are expressing an emotion. To say, “I feel badly,” implies that there's something wrong with your sense of touch. Every time I hear people say, “I feel badly,” I imagine them in a dark room having trouble feeling their way around with numb fingers.

That's because badly is an adverb, meaning that it modifies a verb. So when you say, “I feel badly,” the adverb badly relates to the verb feel. Since feel means "to touch things," feeling badly means you're having trouble touching things.

A listener named Allison pointed out that people wouldn't say they feel madly or they feel sadly, and she wondered why so many people say they feel badly. Fowler's Modern English Usage notes that it's only appropriate to use bad instead of badly after the verb feel (1). But other sources say this is true of all verbs that describe senses, such as taste and smell (2). For example, “I smell bad” and “I smell badly” have completely different meanings! When you say, “I smell badly,” badly is an adverb that modifies the verb smell. You're saying your sniffer isn't working, just like when you say you feel badly you're saying that your fingers aren't working. When you say, “I smell bad,” bad is an adjective, which means it modifies a noun. You're saying that you stink, just like when you say “I feel bad” you're saying that you are regretful or sad or ill or wicked.

But getting back to Allison's question, the reason people often think they should say they feel badly is that after most other verbs it's correct to use the adverb. For example, if you gave a horrible speech you might say, “It went badly.” If a child threw a fit in a shopping mall, it would be correct to say, “She behaved badly.”

That's all. Scott, who teaches eighth grade, is this week's winner in the Grammar Girl book giveaway. Scott wins a download of the eBook Chris Soth's Million-Dollar Screenwriting Mini-Movie Method. I've read about half of the book and found it to be very practical and interesting. So congratulations, Scott, and please check your e-mail for instructions. I'll put a link on the Grammar Girl website to the eBook page at milliondollarscreenwriting.com for everyone else who wants to put their grammar skills to use by writing a screenplay.

Please send questions and comments to feedback@quickanddirtytips.com or call them in to the voicemail line at 206-338-GIRL 4475). You will also find a complete transcript of this podcast at the Grammar Girl website at quickanddirtytips.com.

Grammar Girl is part of the Quick and Dirty Tips network. Please check out all the other great Quick and Dirty Tips from Money Girl, Modern Manners, and the Traveling Avatar at iTunes or QuickAndDirtyTips.com.

A Note from Grammar Girl

Sometimes it seems that with the English language nothing is set in stone! Some sources argue that it is so common to hear people say “I feel badly” that it is becoming acceptable as a form of expressing sadness or regret. Many dictionary usage notes discuss the issue of everyday usage versus formal usage of bad and badly (3,4,5). I prefer to stick with the firm grammar rules and say, “I feel bad when people are afraid to write to me,” but if you feel strongly about using badly, you could find a source to back you up. (In fact, feel strongly is one of the phrases I have seen used to support the parallel use of feel badly.)



References

  1. 1. Burchfield, R.W., ed. The New Fowler's Modern English Usage. Third edition. New York: Oxford, 1996, p. 87.
  2. Bochan, T. L. Parent Primer: Grammar. Scholastic Inc.
    http://content.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=1381 (accessed January 25, 2007).
  3. bad. Dictionary.com. Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Random House, Inc. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bad (accessed: January 25, 2007).
  4. bad. Dictionary.com. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 2004. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bad (accessed January 25, 2007).
  5. Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary of American Usage via Questions on Adverbs. North Carolina State University's Online Writing Lab. http://www2.ncsu.edu:8010/ncsu/grammar/Adverb3.html (accessed January 25, 2007).

Related Grammar Girl Episodes

Addictive Versus Addicting
Episode 16: July 06, 2007
Unlawful Versus Illegal
Episode 68: July 27, 2007
Less Versus Fewer
Episode 54: May 11, 2007
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Comments (71) for Bad Versus Badly |  Subscribe to Comment

jalynn Says:
10/27/2008 3:25:38 PM
i think this website is very useful
Cheryl Says:
7/28/2008 5:42:54 PM
Hearing people say "I feel badly" instead of "I feel bad" has long been one of my pet peeves and in my opinion always makes them appear ignorant or pretentious. You can only feel badly with your fingers! An easy way to remember this is that you wouldn't say "I feel goodly" so don't say "I feel badly". Thank you for helping clear this up! How about sending your explanation to every commentator on TV!!!
Josh Says:
6/25/2008 8:23:44 PM
Do i say "I need it pretty badly?" also, do i say "I could use it pretty bad" or "pretty badly."
Jennifer in CT Says:
5/19/2008 8:47:18 PM
I recently found this podcast, so I'm desperately trying to catch up. You are answering all my questions that I felt too dumb to ask. Thanks!
john Says:
5/14/2008 7:02:48 PM
Would you be so kind as to address bad vs poor? I have bad spelling or I have poor spelling. Thanks grammer girl
rumpy Says:
5/13/2008 1:35:26 PM
Apologies for intruding, but in my search for some vocabulary clarification, I seem to have stumbled upon a gold mine. I'm desperately trying to understand, logically, in what context one must use the term 'sport' as against the term 'sports'. They're used synonymously, but there is a distinct difference, i.e., "I'm working on the use of sport for development, which envisages empowerment through sports." I should be most grateful for feedback. Thanks.
ur mom Says:
4/7/2008 12:29:22 PM
you suck grammmer girl! this was crapy! get a life
Greg Pensinger Says:
12/11/2007 11:08:13 PM
See my defense of you @ http://metaphorical.wordpress.com/2007/01/28/i-feel-badly-about-some-rules-of-grammar/ Pardon the quip at the beginning about your tone. I think your conversationalist and casual tone works well for what you are trying to accomplish.
Jeff S Says:
10/4/2007 4:23:01 PM
I remember a few years ago, someone--I think it was Ms. Manners--was recalling a friend canceling an appointment, saying it was because she "was feeling badly." Ms.M's response (of course suppressed, but wonderfully imagined): "I am sorry to hear that. Let me know when you're feeling goodly"
RWREVOLUTION Says:
9/18/2007 8:41:46 PM
Anyone want to comment on the word hopefully? Hopefully the bus arrives on time today. As opposed to: I hope the bus arrives on time today.
Brandon Says:
9/12/2007 11:45:49 AM
How many people is youins?
Grammar Girl Says:
6/23/2007 5:56:32 PM
Good point! I recently did a show about how easy it is to misplace modifiers like "only."

http://grammar.qdnow.com/2007/05/15/misplaced-modifiers.aspx
leeskerette Says:
6/22/2007 8:54:53 PM
I have always thought that the word "reason" stands by itself (although I have not found an official view about this issue). I think "the reason why" is just as incorrect (and redundant) as "the reason is because...," which I often hear.

Examples of correct (in my opinion!) ways to phrase this are:
-- The reason he is happy is that he won the game.
-- He is happy because he won the game.
-- Why is he happy? Because he won the game.

George Ramsey Says:
6/21/2007 3:45:50 PM
In your excellent article about "bad vs. badly," you write "Fowler's Modern English Usage notes that it's only appropriate to use bad instead of badly after the verb feel (1)." One of the grammatical nits which I always pick is the placement of the modifier "only." In your sentence quoted above, I contend that "only" should appear just before "after the verb feel (1)" rather than before "appropriate." It is NOT "only" "appropriate" to use "bad" in such a circumstance; it is also precise, careful, elegant (IMHO), etc. "Only" is a limiting modifier, and in your sentence the intent is to limit the sort of circumstances in which "bad" should be used; you are not intending to limit the characteristics of such usage.
Azaad Says:
5/25/2007 7:14:11 AM
I think the problem with your reasoning is that "I feel well" is grammatically incorrect. As grammar girl says of "badly", feeling well would connote that you are good at feeling. "I am well" is appropriate, however you can't say you feel well.
Grammar Girl Says:
5/13/2007 1:55:22 AM
I apologize. It's a glitch in the system, and my GoDaddy contact promises me they are working on it.
Camille Helland Says:
5/13/2007 1:34:27 AM
Please include a true podcast description (rather than an advertisement) in your episode description message. Without an accurate description, I am unable to tell whether I have heard the episode or not!
Grammar Girl Says:
4/29/2007 8:14:32 PM
We don't sell Grammar Girl t-shirts yet, but you can get an aardvark t-shirt at the Cafe Press store: http://www.cafepress.com/grammargirl

We plan to in the future. If you sign up for the e-mail newsletter, you'll be notified when they are available. https://app.e2ma.net/app/view:Join/signupId:18647
Jennifer Says:
4/27/2007 5:39:38 AM
Hi! Do you sell a t-shirt? You should for all of us proud Grammar Girls out here!
Grammar Girl Says:
4/13/2007 11:57:53 PM
I covered this in my new audiobook!

"Many people say they are nauseous when their stomach is queasy. Using 'nauseous' in that way sometimes makes other people nauseated because the sticklers stick with the rule that 'nauseous' means to induce nausea, whereas 'nauseated' means you feel sick. So although only the most irritating people will judge you on your grammar when you're describing how sick you feel, it's best to stick with 'nauseated' when you're well enough to care about word choice."
Amy Says:
4/13/2007 2:16:56 PM
Thanks to everyone who posted your thoughts about feeling badly and doing well. I always thought of myself as a person who uses our language correctly, but I say these particular phrases incorrectly way too often. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the phrase, "I feel nauseous."
John Says:
4/5/2007 5:38:56 AM
You're right, I am interested in descriptive grammar. But I don't think that precludes talking about the rules of standard English. I think all English speakers can benefit from learning standard English. It's the definition of "standard English" that we disagree on.

I think the only sensible definition of standard English is "English as it is used by most good writers of English." A good guide to this kind of English is Merriam-Webster's Concise Dictionary of English Usage. That's where I got the examples from. Surely most snails on the street who want to participate in society and move up in their careers could do worse than follow the examples of good writers of English.

To come back to "feel bad/feel badly": there is no reason to suppose that because variation exists, one variant must be wrong and the other right. Both variants are used. Some people don't like one of the variants, and other people don't like the other variant. Preference seems to be split. But just because you don't like something is no reason to decide that it's wrong.
aardvark Says:
4/5/2007 4:36:54 AM
I'm wondering how a usage can be acceptable and yet ungrammatical. If the rules of grammar don't describe normal English, what good are they?

Let's assume that aardvark prefers prescriptive grammar. Such grammar, according to
Let's assume that James Thurber, E.L. Doctorow, and John prefer descriptive grammar. According to Oxford English Grammar (p.25), "Descriptive grammars generally describe the standard variety, though some may occasionally refer to different practices in non-standard varieties."

Let's assume that Squiggly is our therapist. Squiggly would say that this is an inexact science, but that most snails on the street, who want to participate in society and move up in their careers, need the rules of prescriptive grammar, rules that snails can hang their hats on.

As my Grammar Girl once told me, as she was putting the adage "add shine to your image" on her new audio book, "The words you should use depend on the goals you want to achieve and the image you want to project."

Shine on, aardvark.
John Says:
4/3/2007 2:48:55 PM
aardvark,

I'm wondering how a usage can be acceptable and yet ungrammatical. If the rules of grammar don't describe normal English, what good are they?

Not everyone agrees with you that "feel badly" is wrong. It sounds fine to me, Thurber, and Doctorow. Also: http://www.bartleby.com/68/80/2480.html "Whatever line you take—to use both, differentiating on some semantic basis or other, to use only feel bad and proscribe feel badly, or to follow some other line—you will find some Standard users who agree with you and others who do not."

aardvark Says:
4/3/2007 4:38:01 AM
Dear John,

I feel bad about answering this question one month late. As an aardvark, I must have been in the dark or foraging for my daily ration of ants when this question came to me.

Your examples, E.L. Doctorow and James Thurber, are writers who know (or knew) Standard English grammar. As with Twain, who understood grammar so well that he could then pervert it to create 6-7 accurate southern dialects in Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, those with fame can “bend the rules.”

For mere mortals (and aardvarks and snails), Standard English grammar prevails.

Warriner’s English Grammar and Composition (p.164) states, “ The common expression feel badly, however, has through usage, become acceptable English, although ungrammatical. Used with other verbs of sense, badly is not yet standard. Do not say smell badly taste badly, etc.”

John Says:
3/29/2007 11:55:43 PM
This is a dialect difference. The "aks" pronunciation covers almost half the US and the UK.

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19991216

Caryn V. Hodge Says:
3/27/2007 6:56:49 PM
Loved you on the recent Oprah. I am not at all prejudice but I was wondering why most african americans say ax me instead of ask me.
John Says:
3/15/2007 7:58:29 PM
http://www.bartleby.com/61/21/S0422100.html

since CONJUNCTION: 1. During the period subsequent to the time when: He hasn't been home since he graduated. 2. Continuously from the time when: They have been friends ever since they were in grade school. 3. Inasmuch as; because: Since you're not interested, I won't tell you about it.

Fatima Foy Says:
3/15/2007 7:13:09 PM
As an editor for an international company, I am very tired of having to replace "Since" with "Because". I am under the impression that "Since" implies a passage of time, and "Because" is in reference to a reason. I do not think that these terms are interchangeable, but find that “Since” is used nearly everywhere I feel that “Because” would be the correct choice. For example: “Since the software test uncovered 15 bugs, we will need to return the code to development.” Am I correct about this, or have I been wasting my time replacing “Since” with “Because”?
Andy Prior Says:
3/15/2007 3:12:52 PM
"Very" is a very useless word.

If I knew how to do it I would have put x's over the second very, or a line through the word.

Nina Says:
3/14/2007 7:50:57 PM
Please add me to your blog.
Steven Says:
3/14/2007 2:32:46 PM
Hiking, backpacking, rafting, kayaking, swimming, pole vaulting, curling, skating, stock car racing, skiing, competitive walking, diving, scuba diving, skydiving - stop me when we have enough examples. Interestingly, we say sailing more than boating. There may be no more rhyme and reason to this than pride of lions vs gaggle of geese vs covey of partridges (and no less).
Julia Says:
3/14/2007 4:45:05 AM
Ever since I took up a valid interest in the sport of golf, I became impelled with not only the challenge of competing against myself rather than another but also in the rules, and particularly the etiquette, of golf as well. Much like the etiquette of the English language, there is good reason for why etiquette in golf is almost as important as its rules. In fact, much of what is termed "etiquette" is actually sacred rule in the game of golf. It is a given understanding, and held closely by most who play golf ("golfers", if you must), that if you are on a golf course, in play, you will be held responsible to the rules and etiquette of the game, "or else" -- which is why I suppose I am so annoyed by what middle America has decided to term the act of playing golf as "golfing". Ewe! (as in "icky", not sheep). This bastardization is not in any handbook, rule book or any other tome of the game of golf that I know of and it aggravates me to hear it. Yuck. Golf is a game of singleness, often played in pairs or in foursomes just as tennis is played, but you don't hear anyone saying that they are "going tennising". What gives and why do I increasingly hear the phrase, "we're going golfing"? Why does my spell check not underline this word in red to inform me that I have spelled it incorrectly or that no such word exists in the English language? Please tell me that this is not correct terminology but that it is instead a slang derivation of the verb "to play golf" brought on by the laziness that language is vulnerable to in our era of mass and instant communication. I guess that when it gets right down to it, what I am most concerned about is that a bit of the elegance of the game of golf might be lost if the usage of the word itself is "McDonaldized". I am uneasy, yet prepared, to allow whatever answer you provide to assuage my frustration on this matter…'cuz that's the kind of gal I am. So tell me… what is proper, “to play golf” or ”golfing”? Thank you very much for addressing this personally annoying conundrum.
Joe C Says:
3/13/2007 10:59:46 PM
I have been stumped on this, too. It seemed to me, when someone corrected me, that the answer 'good' reflects the state of being in question - good, bad, etc. and that the adverb 'well' modifies the state of being, as in, "my physical broadcast is coming in well," or, worse yet, "I am not entirely certain how it is that dwelling in this universe as a sentient being is possible." The latter would elicit groans in a classroom, I know. Believe me. I get sidetracked with thought, so now I say, "I'm doing well."
taichi kat Says:
3/9/2007 2:52:00 PM
I'm meditating but am forced down stairs by the laughter of spouse and daughter Zoey. They are laughing at YOU, Grammar Girl. I say I can't say "Zoey, you are so unique" (she is admiring her display of six egg timers set out on her computer chair)"because Grammar Girl would not approve." Zoey, "Why not." Me, "Cuz there is only ONE unique Zoey." I am feeling pretty fearless to write this replete with idiosyncraticly parsed phrases to you my Grammar Guru. You Rock! ~Kat
John Says:
3/7/2007 9:34:58 PM
We feel very badly about your only having one turkey - James Thurber 1938

I was laughing, but trying not to for some reason, feeling badly that I laughed, feeling ashamed - EL Doctorow, Loon Lake, 1979

A usage book in 1869 (Bache) actually prescribed the opposite usage: "To feel bad is to feel conscious of depravity; to feel badly is to feel sick.
Carla Says:
3/6/2007 9:26:21 PM
Ugh. In reference to my previous post, I forgot that adding carats would turn the sentences within them to HTML and make them disappear! Here they are again:

My only small vindication is that there are sentences where it is confusing to use “while” to mean “although,” and then it isn't allowed.

I don't want to confuse you, but there is one situation where you use semicolons with coordinating conjunctions, and that's when you are writing a list of items and commas just don't do the job of separating them all.

Thanks!
Carla Says:
3/6/2007 9:21:17 PM
I'm new to the Grammar Girl podcasts and just love them.

Have you covered "where" vs. "in which" before? In reading through your transcripts, I noticed you've used "where" in reference to things other than locations. I've always steered away from doing that, but now I'm wondering if I might have been wrong.

Below are sentences from some of your podcast transcripts. In each, I would use "in which" instead of "where." Would that be correct? Are "where" and "in which" interchangeable?

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Thanks!

Marpesia Says:
2/25/2007 6:15:32 PM
Reading your response shows me the error. The college uses the following "Associates Degree" when they should be using "Associate's Degree." They fail to utilize the apostrophe before the letter "s." I noticed that Princeton University's Wordnet utilizes "Associate." Question: why the apostrophe s? I thought that would denote possession.
Grammar Girl Says:
2/25/2007 5:03:07 PM
The Random House Unabridged Dictionary and the The American Heritage® Dictionary both list the degree as "associate's degree," and The Chicago Manual of Style refers to "bachelor's degrees." You can drop the apostrophe and "s" if you refer to them as "associate of arts" or "bachelor of arts."

The only thing that gives me pause is that all of the references in the Wikipedia article on "associate's degree" call it an "associate degree." Some of them seem to be government reports. But I trust my style guides and dictionaries more than Wikipedia or government reports!

marpesia Says:
2/24/2007 11:56:44 PM
This is driving me nuts and I hope you can clear it up. I have moved from California to Texas and work at a Community College. At the college I am being told that students receive an "Associates Degree" upon graduation. I am constantly saying "no, students receive an Associate Degree" upon graduation. There is no such thing as an "Associates Degree." Personally I think it is simply lazy grammar but would you take a moment to clear this up? Have a GREAT day and thanks!
Grammar Girl Says:
2/6/2007 3:49:32 AM
A listener named Lynn just pointed out an exception to the quick and dirty rule: "badly" can mean unfavorably. For example, "People will speak badly about you," which obviously doesn't mean they will be slurring their words.
Grammar Girl Says:
2/4/2007 6:51:02 PM
That seems properly descriptive to me because you would be saying your feelings don't work as they should.
Grammar Girl Says:
2/4/2007 3:45:25 AM
"Affect" and "effect" were covered in a previous episode: http://grammar.qdnow.com/2006/10/07/affect-versus-effect.aspx
Ruthanne Says:
2/2/2007 2:51:50 AM
Pls. help - could you give me some help on the correct use of "affective" and "effective" please? I think I'm a fairly good writer but these two make me think, (as I tend to think and see the words I'm wanting to use) and I'm still never sure if I'm correct or not! Thanks
Michael Says:
1/31/2007 7:46:59 PM
Is "I feel well" grammatically correct? It always bothered me.
Daniel Says:
1/31/2007 12:58:15 PM
Just a guess, but I think both are correct. "Me" can be either a direct object (as in, "they're going to throw me to the lions") or an indirect object (as in, "Ryan threw me a book"). In the first, I am what is being thrown. In the second, I am the one to whom something else is being thrown. In "people feel bad writing me", "me" is being used in the second sense, meaning "to me". We do this with several other verbs as well: "Tell me a story," "Give me some water," "Show me the book," "Send me a letter," "Sing me a song," and so on. Anyway, just a guess and I welcome corrections.
Katie Says:
1/30/2007 11:45:14 PM
I have a question. I don't understand why one would say "I feel bad about my speech topic," but wouldn't one say "I feel strong about my speech topic?" I am not sure, and sine I am probably one of the youngest people here, I am scared to say something and be incorrect.
Sally Green Says:
1/30/2007 9:57:30 PM
I didn't notice the "bad vs. badly" issue in the CNN article, but wondered about the "people feel bad writing me". Should that be "writing to me"? I am a school administrative assistant who is very interested in proper grammar, and I often proofread communications for other school faculty and staff. Common usage seems to have superseded grammar rules. I'm thrilled that people are interested in what you have to say (and how you say it!)

Thank you!
Daniel Says:
1/30/2007 7:19:11 PM
Actually, "reason why" is correct, I think. In fact, the o